Discussion:
christo-paganism?
(too old to reply)
David Dalton
2012-01-10 04:28:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
One definition of a christo-pagan is one who is called a
pagan by Christians and called a Christian by pagans.

Another definition is one who follows a fusion of pagan
and Christian beliefs, for example many in Mexico who
follow a fusion of traditional native spirituality and
Christianity.

What do you know of christo-paganism? There isn't
yet a Wikipedia article on it.

I was raised Catholic and for a time was an atheist
and more recently have been describing myself as
an individual/eclectic neopagan or a polytheistic
panentheist. But recently, as I describe below,
I have been trying to relate my pagan beliefs to
my Catholic upbringing so I guess I am a
christo-pagan not associated with any group.

My eleven main deities are:

1. my top deity or Deity ALL who is all-powerful but is not
perfectly loving and who I think is equivalent to
the Catholic God the Father. I do not take any
before ALL --- ALL is highest ranked, but there can
be lower ranked (below).

2. LOVE, the someone who is highest in goodness measure as
defined by ALL; I also think LOVE is the personification
of ALL's love; I also think LOVE is equivalent to the
Catholic Holy Spirit

3. Cosma (this universe, spacetime and its contents)

4. Galacta (the galaxy)

5. Sola (the sun)

6. Gaia (the earth) who I link my blue rose vision to

7. Luna (the moon)

8. Human (the species someone of the human species, the smallest
someone in mass containing the human species)

9. samadhi someone (the sublime someone that I once felt myself
slipping up and out of my body and merging with briefly
before snapping back into my body). This might be the
same as LOVE.

10. the one that turned the wind around (the night of Jan. 6, 1994
the wind had blown in one direction very hard all evening
and I let it blow me up Signal Hill and when I was foolishly
considering the trails the wind turned around briefly and
blew me down the hill a bit before resuming its previous
direction). This might be the same as Gaia.

11. Jesus (the one who was Jesus in life, but who I do
not believe was an incarnation of God)


So in 1, 2, and 11 I follow a form of the Trinity but I also
have other deities who I rank higher than Jesus, and I do not
believe that Jesus was an incarnation of God, so I don't
consider myself Catholic any more but a Catholic-influenced
christo-pagan.
--
David Dalton ***@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
Yowie
2012-01-11 08:33:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Dalton
One definition of a christo-pagan is one who is called a
pagan by Christians and called a Christian by pagans.
Another definition is one who follows a fusion of pagan
and Christian beliefs, for example many in Mexico who
follow a fusion of traditional native spirituality and
Christianity.
I'm a Christo-Pagan!

And the definitions you've listed above are as good as any other.

As far as I know, a Christo-Pagan is anyone who has incorporated at
least one part of Christian spirituality or ritual and at least one part
Pagan spirituality or ritual into their own personal beliefs and practices.

At the Pagan extreme (and remember, there are many sorts of Pagans)
there might be a Wiccan who acknowledges the Christ figure as an aspect
of the God or perhaps sees Mary as Christianised version of
Maiden/Mother/Crone.

At the other end (and I am more up this end, although who knows how
far), there might be a person who believes in the mainstream tenets of
Christianity but finds some raw primal joy dancing in the light of the
full moon, or perhaps acknowledges the "lost" Goddess in Christianity.

And most are somewhere in between.

Christo-Paganism is the very definition of an eclectic faith :-)

There is no prescribed path balancing the two sets of beliefs. Some more
orthodox believers from both side of the fence are absolutely sure that
they two beliefs sets are totally incompatible: you are either one or
the other or neither. Most Christo-Pagans couldn't give a hoot what
others think about their faith :-)

There's some good resources out there. "Christo-Pagan" is a good search
term in its own right, as is "Goddess Christian"

There are of course also JeWitches (Jewish Witches) who combine Judaism
with Wicca / Witchcraft, and any theosophy, gnosticism, kabbalah and
indeed pretty much all of Western Mysticism has some basis in the Old
Testament and a "paganism" of sorts. And then there's Sufism, which is
the mystical branch of Islam - with the emphasis on spirituality rather
than rule-keeping. Heck, under a very loose definition, one could even
consider Satanism as a form of Christo-Paganis. It incorporates elements
of the Christian mythos into a Pagan-like religious practice. Its all
very YMMV.

As a Christo-Pagan (although a slack one), I find Catholicism the
easiest of the mainstream Christian sects to express my Pagan side.
Mostly because Catholicism is the oldest sect, and has co-opted a lot of
the old Pagan rituals and symbols into their practice. Mary figures
prominently in Catholicism whilst she's mostly ignored in protestantism
- which makes seeing the Goddess, at least in her Mother aspect, quite a
bit easier. Catholics use candles and incense in their rituals,
something that should be fairly familiar to a practicing Wiccan. And
even had a similar setup for their altar as a Wiccan would. Saints,
whilst not technically *deities* more fulfill the role of different and
specific aspects of the Deity as you'd find perhaps in polytheism in
that they each have their own area of "expertise" in which you can
beseech (eg, St Jude for hopeless situations, St Anthony for finding
lost objects, St Christopher for traveling, St Monica for difficult
marriages etc etc) The first time I attended a Catholic church mass (for
a baptism of a friend's baby) I saw it not through the eyes of a
Protestant / agnostic / athiest but a Wiccan - and probably understood
the symbols used better than many of the Catholics there. And Catholic
history, so well documented, annotated, and kept, shows the links and
relationships between Catholicism and European Paganism.

By the way, there are some Christian sects out there that don't believe
in the Trinity. The Trinity only became Official Doctrine after the
Council of Nicea in the 5th century. Before that, it wasn't set in
stone, and there were lots of arguments between the various sects about
whether there was or wasn't a Trinity and what nature that Trinity would
take if so. IIRC, it was to stop the Arian sect from gaining political
ground.

Among the modern sects that don't necessarily agree with the mainstream
concept of the Trinity include:

Jehovah's Witnesses
Mormons
Christadelphians
United Church of God (Armstrongism)
Oneness congregation
Friends General Conference (the unprogrammed Quakers - generally the
more liberal side)
Unitarians

HTH

Yowie
David Dalton
2012-01-12 04:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thanks, Yowie,
--
David Dalton ***@nfld.com http://www.nfld.com/~dalton (home page)
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/nf.html Newfoundland&Labrador Travel & Music
http://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page)
"Here I go again...back into the flame" (Sarah McLachlan)
storm
2012-01-16 17:03:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yowie
At the Pagan extreme (and remember, there are many sorts of Pagans)
there might be a Wiccan who acknowledges the Christ figure as an aspect
of the God or perhaps sees Mary as Christianised version of
Maiden/Mother/Crone.
Interesting, I do follow these two points, but have never considered
that is enough to be ChristoPagan. I consider it a logical extension
of Eclectic Wicca. I think ChristoPagan would require some part of a
recognizably Christian notion or practice playing a significant role
in one's tradition. (Catholics and I both love Frankincense, but is
that a signifiicant role in my practice?) Yet one more God/Goddess
figure in the mix doesn't seem to make me ChristoPagain any more than
I am EgyptoPagan, for example.

-storm
Yowie
2012-01-17 07:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by storm
Post by Yowie
At the Pagan extreme (and remember, there are many sorts of Pagans)
there might be a Wiccan who acknowledges the Christ figure as an aspect
of the God or perhaps sees Mary as Christianised version of
Maiden/Mother/Crone.
Interesting, I do follow these two points, but have never considered
that is enough to be ChristoPagan. I consider it a logical extension
of Eclectic Wicca. I think ChristoPagan would require some part of a
recognizably Christian notion or practice playing a significant role
in one's tradition. (Catholics and I both love Frankincense, but is
that a signifiicant role in my practice?) Yet one more God/Goddess
figure in the mix doesn't seem to make me ChristoPagain any more than
I am EgyptoPagan, for example.
Asking for a definition of a ChristoPagan is about as fraught as asking
for a definition of a Pagan.

Its pretty down to "if you think you are a Christo-Pagan, you probably
are" :-)

From the descriptions of your beliefs above, I personally wouldn't
consider you a Christo-Pagan because, as you rightly state, you are no
more Christo-Pagan for having some small aspect of Christianity (ie, the
Frankincense) in common with your beliefs than you are an EgytoPagan.

But that doesn't mean that there isn't someone out there somewhere who
would consider your belief-set at the Pagan end of the Christo-Pagan
spectrum.

Yowie
Don Hilliker
2012-01-27 03:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
While I was raised Christian, it never took nor worked for me. I have
followed my mostly wiccan path for many years while sharing my life
with a good lapsed catholic. From comments made, while she is lapsed,
and has done some rituals with me, she is still at heart a catholic.
I myself have no doubts as to my path (chirstian until the death of my
young wife 3 weeks short of the birth of our firstborn), but I find
the need to blend christian in to keep the peace. For the record, We
celibrated 20 years together in November, and I have found peace with
her girls as my childeren (even if they were nearly grown when we met
- they are my daughters). Both girls are christan, and know of my
path yet still call me pops so I guess they can hit the same world.
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 01:26:24 CST, Yowie
Post by Yowie
Post by storm
Post by Yowie
At the Pagan extreme (and remember, there are many sorts of Pagans)
there might be a Wiccan who acknowledges the Christ figure as an aspect
of the God or perhaps sees Mary as Christianised version of
Maiden/Mother/Crone.
Interesting, I do follow these two points, but have never considered
that is enough to be ChristoPagan. I consider it a logical extension
of Eclectic Wicca. I think ChristoPagan would require some part of a
recognizably Christian notion or practice playing a significant role
in one's tradition. (Catholics and I both love Frankincense, but is
that a signifiicant role in my practice?) Yet one more God/Goddess
figure in the mix doesn't seem to make me ChristoPagain any more than
I am EgyptoPagan, for example.
Asking for a definition of a ChristoPagan is about as fraught as asking
for a definition of a Pagan.
Its pretty down to "if you think you are a Christo-Pagan, you probably
are" :-)
From the descriptions of your beliefs above, I personally wouldn't
consider you a Christo-Pagan because, as you rightly state, you are no
more Christo-Pagan for having some small aspect of Christianity (ie, the
Frankincense) in common with your beliefs than you are an EgytoPagan.
But that doesn't mean that there isn't someone out there somewhere who
would consider your belief-set at the Pagan end of the Christo-Pagan
spectrum.
Yowie
r***@gmail.com
2013-04-10 07:57:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I blend gnostic christianity & eclectic paganism together. Add to the mix, gnostic luciferianism (the gnostic path that I follow is ophite gnosticism).
The gnostic were history's 1st christopagan. Like most gnostic, I have a different view on jesus.
As to my pagan path, I honor my ancestor who were anglosaxon (my dad's side) & gaelic (me mom's~was scots-irish).
Loading...